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46 responses to “Daily Kos Gives a Big Kiss to Wick”

  1. Hank Fox says:

    What? Deserting the conservative candidates? Because they’re not REAL conservatives? Yeah, right.

    I keep asking every supposedly reformed Republican why they don’t stick with the party that got us all here. Show some guts and ride it out. Hell, if Reagan was good enough for you, and presumably Bush in his early years, how can you turn away from McCain and Palin, the pinnacle of conservative philosophy? All Palin needs to do is shoot somebody in the face, and conservative voters will start planning statues.

    Nice whack at the evil liberals too. If only conservatives had held power throughout American history, we’d still have slavery and non-voting, non-property-owning women, but hey … if liberalism is based on a “system of ‘oughts,’ ” it’s got to be really unworkable, right?

    Not like the Conservative Era that’s brought us such delights as a string of unwinnable wars, an economic meltdown unrivaled since the Great Depression, a worldwide loss of prestige and power, a growing domestic police state, and a creeping theocracy that wants to run every woman’s vagina and every schoolkid’s mind.(Teach the controversy! Evolution is just a theory!)

    Gosh, great thing Obama is a “realist,” huh? Maybe he’ll forgive and forget what the conservatives have done, and we can move on as a nation, no hard feelings. Cheney, Bush, Rove, Rumsfeld and friends can retired rich and safe, and all write books about their happy, successful sojourn as leaders of America. Yeah, we need to put this all behind us, and move on as a nation!

    If more jackasses like you continue to not notice that your ideas have not worked, or at the very least that BOTH types of voices must be respected in an open democratic society, we’ll continue to have this shit go on.

    But oh, no. You just keep right on bashing those wicked, bad librools. This is mostly their fault, and conservatism will save us all, if we can only do it right.

    Think about this, buddy: Obama will face problems not seen in a generation, problems that will require every scrap of goodwill and ingenuity to even begin to solve. But all the time he’s trying to work on them, he’ll also face a vicious ongoing hate-fest from the likes of Bill O’Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Michelle Malkin and Mona Charen, not to mention all the nice conservatives in Congress. And we’ll probably not hear a peep of protest from you.

    “My party has slipped its moorings. It’s time for a true pragmatist to lead the country.”

    Bloody hell. [The rest of this post has been deleted by the Comment Guy for boorishness.]

  2. robin junker says:

    great article. especially the part about Washington’s wooden tooth. can you tell me the specific issues you disagree with obabma.

  3. glenn hunter says:

    Hank Fox: I really think you need to take your medication now and get back to bed.

  4. Arec Barrwin says:

    It is sad that Wick is so easily bamboozled by Obama’s propaganda. Obama’s many so-called campaign promises are, in all probability, lies. His entire voting career meshes perfectly with orthodox liberal Democratic policy. It is highly unlikely that Obama has had an epiphany of sorts and become a Republican. Obama is simply saying whatever he needs to say to get elected. Not that McCain is much better in this regard, of course, but at least McCain’s voting record over 28 years is staunchly conservative, and Obama’s is anything but.

  5. S.G. says:

    I applaud Mr. Allison for sticking to his principles even when it means stepping outside of party lines.

    Re Mr. Fox, if there’s one thing that is destroying OUR country, it’s partisanship and party loyalty. No, I don’t mean that we should compromise on everything. But demonizing the individuals who identify with the other party, rather than just attacking the party’s platform, is the kind of dehumanizing attitude that helps no one. If you’re supposed to be the one caring about this country and its citizens, casting half of them as “conservative weenies” who should “eat **** and die” is certainly hypocritical.

    I think that Mr. Allison has made the right choice here. Apparently Mr. Fox believes that any self-identified conservative can’t make any right choices. It seems that he is unable to transcend the same partisan barriers that Mr. Allison did.

  6. Costa Rica, Luxembourg, Lichtenstein, Switzerland, Monte Carlo … decisions, decisions …

  7. Bill in Ft. Worth says:

    “Think about this, buddy: Obama will face problems not seen in a generation, problems that will require every scrap of goodwill and ingenuity to even begin to solve. But all the time he’s trying to work on them, he’ll also face a vicious ongoing hate-fest from the likes of Bill O’Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Michelle Malkin and Mona Charen, not to mention all the nice conservatives in Congress. And we’ll probably not hear a peep of protest from you.”

    It’s funny to me that you make this argument on Obama’s behalf. Less than one year into his term President Bush was facing a national crisis unlike any this country has ever seen. Sure, the democrats made nice for a little while. But, after a few short months, you could interchange any of those conservative media names with liberal media names and it would be the exact same thing that George W has had to endure. And I certainly didn’t hear a peep of protest from guys like you.

  8. Linda says:

    This article sounds all well and good. Thoughtful. But…This country has become spoiled..lame…and our children have lost all values/morals. Obabama is a product of the last 20 years…and most citizens that are leaning towards him are also of the same….even college grads…are uninformed…they just know Obabama is “cool”,good-looking etc. (90 % of our colleges are liberal) Certainly Republicans have been going down the wrong road the last 8 years…but we SURE don’t want to go liberal now. Too much at stake…we must show a STRONG united front. And the DEMOCRATIC CONGRESS..is NOT the way to go.

  9. Dave says:

    Thank you for the wonderful article and the ideas you have laid out here. I think there are many people in this country who feel exactly the same way, but perhaps don’t realize it because of a wide arrays of fears. Fear of the country becoming more liberal. Fear of electing someone who is not like us. Fear of change. Fear of the unknown.

    I just hope we wake up and rationalize our fears before election day. I think we have become so jaded and so predisposed to not believing .. that we have locked ourselves into a corner.

  10. Michael Blackburn says:

    Thank you Mr. Allison for your confidence and grace. Sen. Obama represents a new, more pragmatic generation ascending to power. And thank God, after the steaming mess sixteen years of Baby Boomer ideologues have made of this great country.

    Hank Fox, please, follow Mr. Hunter’s suggestion. The grown-ups are talking.

  11. DarrinE says:

    So you are angry with the Republican party for having moved leftward and that it is taking an unconstrained (utpoian) viewpoint in world affairs. Namely that we are in the business of democracy spreading because it is not only possible to perfect the political systems of other people, but that we ought to do so.

    To rebut: The Republicans were isolationist to begin World War II, and that mistake cost millions of people their lives. You could say they were right after the fact, and screw the Jews that were saved, it wasn’t worth 400,000+ American lives. Today, it is the Democrats (with some famous conservatives like William F Buckley and Pat Buchanan) who made the same argument in the face of Islamic threats against the West. Barack is on that side and I think he is wrong.

    TO put it succinctly: Most conservatives would agree that we SHOULDN’T run around the planet trying to pull off Iraq and Afghanistan. However, these are fronts on the Islamic war on us, and we are bearing this dead-weight loss of blood and treasure because we have to (not want to) in order to prevent a wider war in the future.

    I’m waiting for your argument that Barack is conservative. You made simple assertions that he is, but stated no supporting evidence. You did mention that he has the ability to think, and that he can make an argument. If you impute that quality to true conservatives, I’ll take that compliment and thank you for it; despite the fact it is self-serving and indefensible because it leaves out the many intelligent lefties in the public forum. You mention that he has read the Federalist Papers- but does he agree with them? I’ve read the Communist Manifesto but I absolutely reject it as utpoian- a point you seem to agree with in your article.

    Obama embraces much Utopian thought in his rhetoric, and he embraces much big government in his policies. Your argument doesn’t hold up that you can’t support McCain for the same Republican Party sins. You can cut off your nose to spite your face- it’s your prerogative. However, I think you will be disappointed with the result.

    It’s not the candidate you want- it’s the candidate you get that matters. I’d hope you would make that distinction as a constrained, thoughtful conservative yourself.

  12. JK says:

    Great article. I hope conservatives see the light. Unless your idea of conservatism is teaching creationism in schools while China and India take our jobs by making great progress in education.
    Obama is the closest to being a fiscal conservative in this election. Cutting taxes for the wealthy and borrowing from the Saudis and Chinese to throw it away in Iraq does not a fiscal conservative make.
    Thats even prominent Republicans like Senator Chuck Hagel are speaking out against the Palin fiasco. Check the AP news story.
    http://news.yahoo.com/story//ap/20080918/ap_on_el_pr/hagel_palin

  13. wes mantooth says:

    How did we go from that nice, polite conversation yesterday about the CC DeVille Hotel to this?

  14. Eve says:

    What a thought-provoking piece that makes just the case I think Obama has been making – that now is the time to stop focusing on our differences and start working to fix the things we can and must in order to save this great country. The challenges we’re facing are overwhelming in their enormity – and, as Wicks so clearly points out, we need a leader who is thoughtful, practical and prudent.

    I hope this will inspire many to think about the profound differences in approach that Obama and McCain represent – and how Obama, whether you agree with all of his policies or not, offers the thoughtful, practical approach our country so desperately needs.

    It’s also important to read this article from Time’s Joe Klein. It provides a sobering look at how McCain has abandoned the honor of his previous service these past few months:

    http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1842030,00.html?imw=Y&loomia_si=t0:a3:g2:r1:c0.0493132

  15. cs says:

    Very well done. I fall pretty soundly in the democratic party, but I’ve always maintained an independent mindset and made a sincere effort to understand other people’s political motivations even when i disagree with them. Given this, it’s still be difficult for me to wrap my head around the modern republican philosophy (fallacy-py), but your article had given me some much desired perspective– that of a republican who is actually paying attention. Again, very well done.

  16. Jimmye Wade says:

    I am so sick of conservative vs liberal, democrat vs republican. We need to concentrate on good judgment vs bad judgment. We are in this mess because our “experienced” leaders made bad decisions based on poor judgment. When I vote for a candidate, I am going to select the one I feel will use good judgment in making decisions that will affect me. Which candidate
    had supported most of those bad decisions? This should be a big factor in helping you decide who to vote for. We have got to stop fighting each other and come together to help solve these major problems.

  17. Rawlins Gilliland says:

    I read this twice and shared it with others. The linear way Wick itemizes his points and diagrams his conclusions struck me as dispassionate no-frills intellectually profound reading. Food for thought that made me hungry for more.

  18. Bill in Ft. Worth says:

    Great argument, JK. Very sound reasoning. Your well-articulated point of “hoping the conservatives see the light” and tying the desire by some to teach creationism in schools to jobs being lost because of “great progresses being made in education” were especially profound. Citing someone who has been a vocal critic of the Bush Administration since the 2003 invasion of Iraq to say something negative about another Republican? Brilliant. I just hope this country adheres to your sound advice so we can “see the light” in time to get past this “Palin fiasco” and elect someone who has true foreign policy knowledge and experience with reforming a broken political system. I, for one, am ready for that to happen.

  19. JP Williams says:

    @ Jimmye. Is voting “for” or “against” something kind of like voting “present” for something? I’m confused.

  20. KRM says:

    Hank Fox, it’s time to switch to decaf. Wick, you are drinking the koolaid and selling your soul to a smooth-talking socialist. Obama scares me. His power of influence is astounding with virtually no credentials to back him up. I actually get the vibe from Obamans that their man is a prophet. I refuse to drink this Koolaid like Mr. Allison. John McCain is an American hero from a family of Navy admirals. John McCain has one of the strongest track records ever of bi-partisan legislation. John McCain was born to lead, will work hard to unify and reform Washington, and will be one of our country’s greatest presidents.

  21. JB says:

    I too am angry that the Republican Party has moved to the left. This “Spread of Democracy” doctrine frightens me as well. Frankly some countries are not ready for it. You don’t give a drivers license to a 7 year old for good reason. Also the expansion of government under Bush is an outrage. I believe that one could make the argument that Bush was the best Democrat ever elected, and when one considers the welfare and trade reform in the 90’s, Clinton was probably the best Republican style President since Reagan. I believe as the polarizing Boomers die off/fade, there is a current generational shift in the parties that are eventually going to redefine each in a way where Republican won’t equal ‘Conservative’ and Democrat won’t equal ‘liberal’. Democrats may very well end up being more ‘conservative’ especially on issues of personal freedom and keeping government out of the home and Republican soccer moms have already been instrumental in developing the “Nanny State” laws like cell phone bans, that are bringing more government into the home and community. That being said, after reading Wick’s article now, a second time, it just seems dated. At the time he wrote it, Obama was certainly running a far superior and respectful campaign over Hilary. Russia was still playing nice and going to negotiation tables over its issues with Georgia. And the government wasn’t daily bailing out investment and insurance firms. McCain has also certainly stepped up the chess match by bringing on Palin. I guess I’m wondering…. Mr. Allison, given the recent changes, and changes to come, are you still really sticking with Obama at this time? Wouldn’t you at least like to hear 1 of the 3 scheduled debates?

  22. Bethany says:

    OK…I’d just like to say that one, you’re not allowed to use the phrase “To put it succinctly” if you’re not being succinct.

    Two, hard returns and paragraphs are our friends.

  23. Gwyon says:

    I thought the conservative philosophy was to bankrupt the government in order to eliminate social programs, start a war (if possible), funnel taxpayer money to (GOP-friendly) private industry, purge democrats from social service positions, spy on and intimidate dissenters, centralize executive branch power and ignore attempts at oversight, establish think tanks, manipulate friends in the press, influence elections in any way possible and blame big government, socialism and regulation whenever the rabble begin to get a bit wary that you’re up to something.

    By this measure, conservatism has been incredibly successful. Four more years. Heck, eight more.

  24. amandacobra says:

    I have yet to understand the messianic/”are you drinking the Kool-Aid?” comparisons. I support Obama. Do I want to fall forward in his presence and bathe his feet? Nope. Do I think he is or will be a flawless leader? Nuh-uh. Do I even agree with 100% of his platform? No but no one ever agrees with every single bullet point?

    If anything, I find the endless uses of the phrases “war hero”, “true American hero”, “POW hero” etc. for McCain to be kind of cultish. Not accusing anyone of drinking the Kool-Aid because there’s nothing wrong with genuinely supporting your preferred candidate. Just saying that your guy’s Navy admiral credentials may speak to you in the same way that my guy’s magna asterisks laude from Harvard and community activism speaks to me.

    As a side note, the Dem candidate’s name is Barack OBAMA. Noticed there were a few mangled attempts at spelling it. No biggie.

  25. “I thought the conservative philosophy was to bankrupt the government in order to eliminate social programs, start a war (if possible), funnel taxpayer money to (GOP-friendly) private industry, purge democrats from social service positions, spy on and intimidate dissenters, centralize executive branch power and ignore attempts at oversight, establish think tanks, manipulate friends in the press, influence elections in any way possible and blame big government, socialism and regulation whenever the rabble begin to get a bit wary that you’re up to something.”

    If that were the case I’d be a conservative. Alas.

  26. Gwyon says:

    Trey, you ARE a conservative.

  27. JLR says:

    The absurdly written comments from Linda underscore two points that are rarely addressed. She writes:

    …This country has become spoiled..lame…and our children have lost all values/morals. Obabama is a product of the last 20 years…and most citizens that are leaning towards him are also of the same….even college grads…are uninformed…

    Go to any strip club in America and survey the patrons (and the dancers, too for that matter) as to who they are voting for. Hint, it won’t be Obama.
    Degeneracy in America is not issuing from liberal thinking, but is percolating up from the white trash barrel and the Republican OWNED rags like the NY Post and Fox TV.
    Next contrast the families of Obama and Palin, e.g., and you will begin to see that it is you who are uniformed: the conservative party that you think exists is an illusion — like an extinguished star whose light still travels to earth. In the 21st C, the right wing in America is not conservative, like your grandma’s GOP. It is degenerate. Wake up.

  28. Dubious Brother says:

    I always thought that the success of a tax rate cut should be measured by its affect on revenue and not by the increase in spending controlled by Congress.

    Conservatism has not been tried in this country because of the systems in place and the two party system.

    I personally prefer that Canada be in charge of the 550 metric tons of yellowcake uranium that we found in Iraq in 2003 and just recently moved than Saddam Hussein, the Hussein sons, Al-Qadea or Iran. President Bush has been continuously attacked by the press for lying and even after this has become public knowledge, he has kept quiet about it as has the press.

    Obama is black by choice (as he is 50% white and 50% black for those keeping score) unless he is using the Hitler/slave owner rule of “just one drop of blood”. He got an affirmative action education and law degree but I wonder if he had chosen to be white, would he have the education that he has and would his “accomplishments” be all that impressive.

    Wick’s choice to support the most liberal and least experienced candidate because the Republican isn’t perfect is puzzling. No one should be happy with either party. Down ballot, they both oppose vigorous primaries and leave us with little choice at election time.

  29. JB says:

    @JLR
    ….uhhh. Last I heard Fox TV was owned by Rupert Murdoch, a staunch democrat supporter, at least in terms of money. And I have never heard of the “Conservative Party,” so I’m thinking that IS an illusion.

  30. blue sky says:

    @KRM: Socialist? Wow. That is so, like, Fifties. Check the bushes to see if there’s any communists hiding behind them. Words like “socialist” lost their meaning a long time ago when they just became part of an ad hominen attack on anyone who offered something other than nostalgia or simplistic solutions to problems. Let’s cut the name-calling and stick with the issues.

  31. Josh Pearson says:

    @ JLR – I’m a little confused about the role you think Sarah Palin’s and Barack Obama’s families play in the upcoming general election. I’m also a little confused about why we should contrast them and thus reach a conclusion about a “conservative party”. Please explain, unless you just wanted to poke the bear and hide behind your initials.

  32. Josh Pearson says:

    amandacobra – even Wick admits to contributing the full allowable amount to McCain’s camp and is now voting for Obama. IJS…

  33. bleacherseats says:

    Take a bow Amanda.

  34. cs says:

    @amandacobra, Thank you for welcoming JB to the reality.

    @blue sky, socialism is a red herring.

  35. JB says:

    @amandacobra
    Rupert Murdoch Embarrassed by Fox News and Bill O’Reilly Will Vote for Barack Obama
    Conservative media baron is quite embarrassed by Bill O’Reilly and by his Fox Television network

    http://php.sys-con.com/node/671616

  36. amandacobra says:

    @ JB

    I was only arguing the point of Murdoch historically being a staunch financial supporter of Democrats. As we now know, even people who give money to McCain can be fed up with the Republican party and choose to support Obama.

  37. bleacherseats says:

    @JB – not a primary source, you’re citing.
    @Amandacobra — I think you mean Republicans here rather than Democrats…””I was only arguing the point of Murdoch historically being a staunch financial supporter of DEMOCRATS.”

  38. JLR says:

    I don’t poke bears, Josh — the only thing bearish about you conservatives is the economic collapse with which you shackled our futures. Also, I don’t piss in public, but your response certainly appears to be an invitation to a good old pissing contest. So email me your email and I’d be glad to accommodate you. Funny though, how neither you nor your fellow knucklehead conservative attacked my scathing generalities about strippers and white trash, but chose, instead, an annal retentive snipe at the use of “conservative party.” I wrote it in lower case, because I intended “conservative” to be understood in the context of the paragraph as an adjective. As for why we should contrast the candidates’ families– because this is 2008. We have been clobbered over a lifetime of exposure to TV, consumer branding and propaganda radio, into adversarial groups who identify with political parties through association with group indices. Go back and think this time about the people the parties have offered the public. They drag their families out whenever possible to flaunt their group characteristics. One is married to a woman who achieved an Ivy League education, the other selected a VP candidate whom he hardly knew…one who chose her college based on the weather and is married to guy who happily describes himself as a redneck. That’s why. Again, the Republican party is no longer the party of Goldwater conservatives. It is the redneck party. Why? Demographics. In order for the Verizon-like network of shadowy interests behind the GOP candidates to continue their de-construction of the Union and the sell off of its assets, they need to maintain this charade of democracy.

  39. amandacobra says:

    @ bleacherseats

    I was arguing HIS point that Murdoch has been a staunch financial supporter of Democrats. So yes, arguing that Murdoch has been a financial supporter of Republicans historically. But yeah, could have said it better. At least I got the “u” in staunch the second time around! Baby steps.

  40. @ JLR

    On behalf of other white trash and on behalf of other fans of strippers, I take offense at being associated with the Republican Party.

  41. amanda says:

    I know a bunch of strippers, and a bunch of strip club patrons…let the record reflect that most of them cannot vote. The ones who can, that I know, are in the bag for Obama.

    Not that there’s anything wrong with being a stripper…

  42. JB says:

    OK I take away the staunch part. But my main meaning is that with a new generation of power beginning to seep into the Washington Beltway, it is not going to be so easy to simply label a person or issues as simply Republican, Democrat, conservative, or liberal. The definitions of these are in a current state of flux. Jumping to conclusions, and calling or person an idiot,…….well I think Tim Rogers said it best last week: “– if you call these people idiots – you’ve demonstrated something worse than a bias. You’ve shown that your mind is closed. And you’re lazy.”

  43. JLR says:

    Hey Tres, Very funny. I don’t blame you…in that case, I think I may have offended myself as well!

  44. dallasachiever says:

    I heart Bethany!