A Few Questions from Tracy Rowlett

Tracy Rowlett

Ron Kirk remains the most powerful politician in Dallas who doesn’t hold public office. The former mayor may have lost a Senate race against John Cornyn in 2002, but his political career hasn’t lost its luster. I asked him bout life as a private citizen, his goals, and the movement to change Dallas’ government.

Rowlett: Now that you are out of office, are you content? Or do you still have political aspirations?
Kirk: I am very content. I ought to be able to spend the next ten years focusing on my family and my [legal] career and wealth building and enjoy my hiatus from politics. But things in this business change very quickly. And if the right circumstances came along, given my nature, I’m sure I would look at it.

Rowlett: So if, as expected, Senator Hutchison decides to run for governor in 2006, would you run for that open Senate seat?
Kirk: Well, I’d sure take a strong look at it. Obviously, that’s the one position I’ve been most enamored with outside of mayor. And assuming she ran for governor and she won, she would then appoint her successor, because I’m assuming she would not resign her Senate seat to run. Then there would be a special election where you would run in a non-partisan race, and that would be intriguing.  

Rowlett: Even so, you are a Democrat who is still proud to wear that label. After November, pundits were saying the party is out of touch with the heartland. Are you?
Kirk: Well, looking at those national red and blue maps, and seeing all that red in the middle, you’d be hard pressed to make the argument that we haven’t lost touch.   But while the map shows all red or all blue, the reality is that the country is about as evenly divided as the election shows. Clearly, we have not presented our message in a way that resonates with those voters in the heartland. So yes, I think we have lost our footing, but I don’t think we have slid all the way down the mountain.  But we very much need to rethink how we reach out to voters, and we have got to stop making assumptions about voters and whom they’ll support.

Rowlett: So, Democrats need to rethink voting blocs–that black voters will always vote for Democrats, for example?
Kirk: That is a dangerous assumption. If you look at reality, African Americans consistently vote about 90 percent Democratic. But there are many of us who argue that it is a dangerous thing to assume that trend is going to continue forever. There are many African Americans today who benefited from Civil Rights legislation, ironically, who are now making six-figure incomes and don’t see themselves as linked to the Democratic Party on civil rights  and who see themselves concerned more about economics and safety and  taxes. We are losing ground now with our base: We lost ground with women, we have lost ground with Hispanics, and we obviously have not figured out how to appeal to suburban voters.

STRONG MAYOR: Kirk favors reform at City Hll but thinks the Blackwood proposal “goes too far.”

Rowlett: Are you interested in serving the Democratic Party at the national level?
Kirk: I am interested in being part of the national debate on how we reposition ourselves. I was asked to join the Democratic National Committee by our last chairman, and I accepted for that reason: I want to be part of the debate. I don’t know that I have to be in a leadership position to do what I want to do.

Rowlett: So you would support Martin Frost for DNC chair?
Kirk: I could easily support Martin Frost or I could support Wellington Webb, the former mayor of Denver, who is a good friend.

Rowlett: Was it a mistake for you to run for the Senate against John Cornyn?
Kirk: No. No. No. I think it is too easy for people to say it was a mistake: He was a Democrat. He was black. But you know, we lost everywhere. September 11th changed everything. It recast George Bush from a leader Americans were very unsure about to a popular president. Still, it isn’t everyday that you get to run for an open Senate seat. And when those moments come you have to take your shot. I think we ran a great race. We ran a competitive race. We raised a comparable amount of money against a well-funded Republican opponent who was backed and guided by the White House. I’m proud of my race, and I don’t have any regrets about it.

Rowlett: Is it possible for a Democrat to win a statewide race in Texas right now?
Kirk: I think it is possible. But as I tell people, it is only possible if we run. These things can turn on a dime, and if you wait for conventional wisdom to change, it will never happen. The Democratic Party is not dead in Texas. Just look at what happened here in Dallas. Texas is becoming a rural versus an urban state, and those urban centers are becoming more progressive and trending more democratic. In the words of [former Senator] Ralph Yarborough:  “The sun don’t shine on the same dog’s ass every day.” Our day will come.

Rowlett: Will it come in the next few years?
Kirk: I think it will. You know, neither party has shown a historical ability to handle success. They start infighting. They start purging. We see these wars over who is the real Republican and who’s not, and who’s a real Democrat. And to some degree, the salvation of the two parties is each other. They just can’t handle prosperity.

Rowlett: You have been very supportive of the new sheriff, Lupe Valdez. What is it that has you so enthusiastic?
Kirk: You know, I don’t think anybody out there would have said, “Oh yeah, we’re gonna have a Hispanic woman be sheriff.” She didn’t know what she didn’t know. First, she didn’t allow conventional wisdom to tell her not to run.  What she did was say she had a 20-year commendable record in law enforcement, and we have a broken agency here that needs new direction, and I think I can offer that. Second, timing is everything. The sheriff’s office had become, at best, laughable; at worst, an out-and-out disgrace. So there was an opening and voters were willing to take a look at a real alternative.  She ran and she just refused to give up, and she is as humble as she is bright. I know she is going to have to deal with some really tough issues, but she is a fabulous person with a good heart and I hope all the people in Dallas County will pull for her.  

Rowlett:  Dallas is a minority city. Where are we in terms of race relations? Are we likely to see battles between minority groups?
Kirk: I hope not. I think especially now that the Hispanic community has had some success at the county level, maybe that will help. The Hispanic community needs to have political heroes, so it was very important for them for Lupe to win. And it was very important that they see her win with strong support from the African American Community. It gives the ability now to say that we can do so much better if we work together. Dallas is not going to be a community that any ethnic group can dominate. So successful candidates are going to build on progressive African American, Hispanic, and Anglo voters, and on a much more politically involved Asian community. With all of our young Hispanic and African American leaders, we have a template that will allow us to build coalitions.

Rowlett: When the recent “Tipping Point” report claimed there is a crisis in Dallas leadership, did you feel at all culpable in that?
Kirk: No. Not at all. I mean, I was disappointed. But I think when I was mayor we demonstrated there is another way to do business and another way to conduct dialogue. Leadership does matter. And the tone you set at the top really does make a difference in how the political debate occurs within a community and how that community views itself. I think that responsibility sits in the mayor’s office.

Rowlett: What kind of marks would you give Laura Miller as mayor?
Kirk: I think I have yet to engage any of those questions. I am trying to give Mayor Miller the courtesy of being judged on her work in the mayor’s office, and not have the former mayor sitting on the sidelines opining about how she is doing. That’s been a comfortable place for me, and I think I’m going to stay there.

Rowlett: Do you support a strong mayor form of government?
Kirk: I support a change. What many people forget is that when I was the mayor, I proposed a charter change, what I call a “strong mayor, strong manager” form of government. I believe in a hybrid. If we are going to have a form of government where there is only one person elected citywide, and that’s the mayor, then the mayor needs to have more power than just “please” and “thank you” in order to get the council to look at the big picture. The reality is that, strong mayor or not, the terms of most city managers in Dallas are not going to be any longer than six to eight years because the job chews you up. So what I proposed was that the mayor hire the city manager, the city attorney, the city secretary, the executive offices of the city, and have those be confirmed by the council, but retain a required super majority to dismiss those officers. That way, at least you have a chance to have a mayor and manager who can work in concert with one another. Dallas has progressed the most when we have had a mayor and a manager who have worked in tandem, that worked hand in hand with the business community, and that’s when we’ve experienced our biggest growth. When we have floundered is when we have had a mayor and a manager who did nothing but fight with each other. You have got to have harmony between the two.

Rowlett: Do you support the Blackwood petition that may well be on the ballot in May?
Kirk: No. It goes too far. I don’t think it is very thoughtful. It is just a negative reaction to what people perceive to be the disharmony at City Hall. It is dangerous, too, because it is a purely emotional response to what people see at City Hall. It hasn’t been thought out enough in terms of its application.  And if it passes, what I predict is that you will have three or four years of just virtual chaos until the city is allowed to come back and have another charter election and put something forward that is more thoughtful. But I do think the council has erred in not understanding how deep the sentiments are, and how strong this current is in the city, to get us away from a system that many perceive as broken. And if they [the council] were smart, they’d come up with a compromise. It doesn’t have to be what I’ve proposed.   But even the current mayor and others realize that you have to have some retained professional authority in the city to have the fiscal responsibility and professional standards that we want.  

Rowlett: Was 14-one a mistake? Did it create too many competing kingdoms?
Kirk: I won’t say it was a mistake. It was one approach to bring a more representative form of government to Dallas. I would never say it was a mistake, but I would say we would not have done violence to the idea of better representation if we’d had 12 single member districts with two at large. If you look at Houston or Atlanta or other cities with very strong ethnic populations, they also have some at-large council members. Having other at-large representatives besides the mayor does not have to diminish a diversely represented council, but it greatly enhances having others taking a bigger picture and a broader look at issues that the city is facing. And I do think that is something that hinders Dallas. Right now, all of that responsibility is on the mayor. And if you don’t have a mayor committed to looking at the big picture, then it gets lost. But the beauty of our system is that we can change that. Our form of government has changed over the years:  We had a strong mayor, we had ward politics, now we have council management. One of our responsibilities as thoughtful, involved citizens is to be able to look at our governmental institutions, and look at the change in our demographics and the change in our needs, and be willing to change our government so it better reflects the needs of our city. We don’t have to live with any of these things forever.

Rowlett: One of the harshest criticisms leveled at Mayor Miller came with the firing of Police Chief Bolton, when she was labeled a racist by some African American leaders. Do you consider her a racist?
Kirk: No. Not at all. And I never have. 

Rowlett: Now that you’re a private citizen again, what are you doing these days?
Kirk:  Well, I tell my law partners I’m practicing law and they can quit asking me that. The answer is always going to be yes, and that I’m a helluva lawyer. I’m on a number of corporate boards, and the biggest thing is just managing my time. My wife, Matrice, and I don’t argue about money or about anything except time management. I’ve got a 7th grader who is very much into dance, and I attend all her dance recitals. I have a daughter who is a sophomore at Hockaday. And I’m trying to be a good dad and rebuild my law practice at the same time. But I love Dallas, and I hope to always be involved. I like the term “public servant.”