Saving The Senate

For six years, Republicans controlled the White House and Congress (in some years with a tie in the Senate). We are now reaping the results of that one-party government. With Obama now likely to sweep the election, Democrats will undoubtedly have a larger majority in the House. The danger is that they are also in a position to have a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate. While this may be good for the GOP (Democrats get the blame and Republicans have time in the wilderness to reinvent ourselves), it is bad for the Republic. Fortunately, John Cornyn is holding his lead in Texas, although it has slipped in the past several weeks. Cornyn is an able, reasonable legislator, and he does a good job for Texas. To my mind, it is essential for the health of the country that Republicans have at the least some ability to apply the brakes to what may become a Democratic runaway locomotive.

Sidenote: In the Rasmussen poll I link to above, Cornyn has a 57% favorable rating. But note the following about Rick Perry:

Texas Governor Rick Perry earns good or excellent job approval ratings from 40% of voters, while 23% give him a poor rating.



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78 responses to “Saving The Senate”

  1. er says:

    Has Obama offered you a spot in his Administration? That can be the only reason you continue to act as a shill for his campaign. A true Republican would embrace the “Maverick” and work hard to ensure victory for the McCain/Palin ticket rather than calling the election for Obama in mid-October.

  2. Gwyon says:

    No need to worry, Wick. Even with a “filibuster-proof” majority, there will still be plenty of Blue Dogs eager to hamstring the party if their GOP daddies tell them to.

  3. JK says:

    I’d pay to never hear the word ‘maverick’ again.

  4. Kirk says:

    I think the Republican party is so damaged by the last 20 years of self-serving stridency that it will have to do more than reinvent itself. It ought to consider rebranding itself.

  5. “A true Republican would embrace the “Maverick” and work hard to ensure victory for the McCain/Palin ticket rather than calling the election for Obama in mid-October.”


    Seriously, why would a conservative (as opposed to a Republican) want to support a candidate who is clearly not a conservative in matters fiscal, foreign, domestic or other? Because he has an R behind his name?

    The coming four-year train wreck of Obama’s presidency may be just what the doctor ordered.

  6. Josh Pearson says:

    “With Obama now likely to sweep the election…” In a baseball series, to sweep means that you won every game. Is Wick calling for Obama to win every state? Interesting.

  7. Mark says:

    “The danger is that they are also in a position to have a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate. While this may be good for the GOP (Democrats get the blame and Republicans have time in the wilderness to reinvent ourselves), it is bad for the Republic.”

    And still, Wick Allison supports Obama?

  8. S.E. says:

    @Josh Pearson – If ACORN keeps signing up Mickey Mouse, Obama might win every state. Sorry, Wick, but Obama is proving himself to be a worthy representative of the Chicago political system, and I think some of the tactics his campaign is using are questionable at best, and should be investigated. Sadly, I have no idea who should be in charge of the investigation, since the media has already decided Obama is the winner.

  9. Jason says:

    I think the best thing that can happen for the Republican party is for Obama to win. Four years of a Democratic Congress with Obama as President, will set the Democratic Party back decades. Despite the polls I just don’t think people are aware that a vote for Obama is a vote for a fat Socialist government!

  10. brett says:

    McCain’s campaign might go down as one of the worst in history…and whether that’s perception, due to the media’s constant fellating of Obama, or McCain’s own inadequacies, I don’t know.

  11. Tom says:

    I see the GOP splitting along its Evangelical and small government lines. McCain has proven that you need the support of the Religious Right to gain the nomination, but alienating those who oppose outrageous spending and deficits (Hi, Wick) will cost you the election.
    That said, it’s going to be rough sledding for Congress and the president the next four years. Republicans who split from the party, becoming Independents or some other group (bringing back the Whigs would be fun) could win some seats in 2012.

  12. Gwyon says:

    S.E., the conspiracy runs deep. And conservatives are going to be persecuted mercilessly when the Librals assume power. Luckily, you still have a few months to finish the pressurized door and carbon-fiber bladder on the family bunker. Clean out the 401K and start buying ammo now, before it’s too late.

  13. Joe Sikspach says:

    I just wish Palin would stop saying my name all the time….

  14. julie says:

    This is the most entertaining chain of comments I’ve ever read.

    “Train wreck”? Bush presidency
    A “president who will set his party back decades” –bush already did it
    A “vote for fat socialist government?” LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL It doesn’t get much more socialized than having to nationalize banks.

    As for the “pressurized door”–gee, what a loss that we won’t be hearing from you for a while. Allow me to push hard from the outside while you are sealing, to make sure it takes.

    The rest of us are getting ready to enjoy 8 years (or more) of peace and prosperity and balanced budgets…ala Bill Clinton.

  15. Dubious Brother says:

    Ask Hillary if the press has had an effect on the Obama campaign.

    Thought the election was in November and recall 1980 when Carter was going to landslide over Reagan. To get insight into the mind of Obama supporters llsten to this:

  16. Long Memory says:

    Democrats controlled the Congress for 40 years and didn’t run up the debt that Republicans managed to in the last 8 years. If the GOP hadn’t fouled things up so badly, then the Dems might have a grace period toward cleaning things up. But I don’t imagine they will get that. And there will be enough Republicans left in the Congress to salt the earth on their retreat so that it’s going to be tough to govern. I just hope that someone will call out the obstructionists by name, letting people know how their new-found commitment to fiscal responsibility doesn’t jibe with the way they spent money when they were in power (Looking at you, Rep. Hensarling, Tom DeLay’s waterboy). I also would like to see people of both parties called out when they vote on anything of interest to the people who make large contributions to their campaigns.

    I can’t help but think about those Republicans who talked about shrinking the government to the point it could be drowned in a bathtub. And now they’ve spent all the money so the expensive reforms required are going to be hard to fund. Very clever. The Borgias have nothing on these people.

  17. Rawlins Gilliland says:

    Rod Dreher has written about the ‘My GOP party right or wrong’ mindset (PS-see his current DMN blog thread) that places a Dixie Chicks pox on your house if you cry foul regarding his party or candidates. Reading this year, with Rod Dreher and Wick Allison both crying ‘foul’ more often than a Little Leauge mom drinking Beefeater’s, it’s a tough sell, the premise that they are liberals in sheep’s clothing and conservatives in name only. Meaning: something’s in the air larger than McCain vs Obama this time round.

  18. Long Memory says:

    I just read a piece about how the GOP is thinking about tapping a line of credit to fund senatorial campaign adds to try and avert the 60-vote barrier.


    But don’t the Dems actually have to get 61, just to be rid of Lieberman? Would that be heartbreaking, to get to 60 and have to count on that guy?

  19. Real I Tea says:

    Wick et all

    Read the post from Julie. Read it again, then read it one more time. Then take that message to a tattoo shop near you, have it printed on your forehead, then get up everymorning and look it.
    While it is clear Wick, you are trying to backpedal on your support for Obama as you don’t want to loose your huge evangelical right wing neocon fan base, you really don’t have to jump on the the fear mongering bandwagon that we have seen go on for the past 8 years.
    Turn on your television. Watch the news.
    Yes, if Obama gets elected the rich will be less rich. Pat Robertson and John Hagee will not have as much influence as before.
    Phil Gramm will not be destroying our economy. Tom Delay will go to prison. George W. Bush will go from being the biggest joke in the world, to the man who destroyed the world.
    So, don’t forget that we Democrats are put in a position of cleaning up the mess left behind by your party.

  20. The bonus is four years of online meltdowns from Obama (peace be upon him) supporters.

  21. Awesome! says:

    “The rest of us are getting ready to enjoy 8 years (or more) of peace and prosperity and balanced budgets…ala Bill Clinton.”

    Wow, I guess I DO have a reason to look forward to the next 8 years. And here I was thinking it was going to be full of tough economic times, political back-biting, hard work, and continuing to fight an enemy that would love nothing more than to wipe us off the face of the planet. I am officially excited.

  22. Rawlins Gilliland says:

    To Wick’s point~~~In the interest of balance and fairness, rather than being PART of the Us vs Them winner take all mindset: any Democrat who believes that the current Democratic lead congress is worthy of praise, salute. I proudly in 2006 aired a piece about, as the son and grandson of female groundbreakers, how moving it was to me when Nancy Pelosi was sworn in (with her children and grandchildren attending). A woman who had dropped out to raise her kids and then went on to unprecidented heights. And look was a lackluster and divisive 2 years it has been. Objectivity is a two-way mirror.

  23. Berly says:

    @ Julie and Real I Tea … well said. Thank you both. Let’s all quit belly-aching about the GOP not being in power and just try to fix the mess they left behind. I mean seriously …

  24. Jason says:

    @ Julie

    I just threw up in my mouth a little… Did you say peace and prosperity? Wow, yet another clueless voter who simply doesn’t understand the ideas of socialism. As for peace, our country has been pretty peaceful while our brave men and women are overseas fighting for your freedom. Leave Iraq and you only increase the chances for 9-11. But you liberals are too short sighted to understand that!

  25. jason says:


    If you really want to throw around links about how people feel on different sides of the political spectrum, then i think this example probably equates better to what we all see and hear from you and other southern repubs:

    and i wouldn’t try to just blow off the guy as a rare radical….me and every other anglo gen-Xer immediately sees our parents and grandparents when we see this guy…but let me guess, you’re the exception, right?

  26. jason too says:


    first of all, drop the cliche “I threw up in my mouth” bit…if you don’t have an original thought, please don’t hit the submit button.

    Second of all, enlighten us…

    When exactly did the country of Iraq threaten our freedom? I never got that memo. Was there some sort of covert Iraqi paratroop batallion that made its way towards DC? I think we all missed it.

  27. @jason

    So you have issues with your parents, huh?


  28. I'm voting for ... says:

    the only man who can make it all right again, who can make us come together as a whole. Thanks Tristan!

  29. Tom says:

    All the Jasons and Amandas need to gather and form a filibuster-proof coalition of Gen X baby names.

  30. Bethany says:

    Silly question, I’m sure – but in most states, isn’t ACORN required by law to turn in every registration card they get, even if the person claims to be Minnie Mouse?

  31. Long Memory says:

    Jason writes: “Wow, yet another clueless voter who simply doesn’t understand the ideas of socialism.”

    When you’re nationalizing the banks to protect the fat cats (oh, and that little dab of many I have in there [thanks!]), don’t call US socialists.

    And as for you, Trey: Peace be upon You. I’m gonna send you and Jason a couple of Starbucks coupons. Try the decaf.

  32. Billusa99 says:

    Careful, Rawlins. Keep mentioning your relatives and Trey may go ad hominem on your family, too.

  33. Long Memory says:

    I think you might be right, Bethany. Doesn’t the law allow for them to cull through and separate the forms that are obviously bad. But they’re not allowed to toss forms in a Dumpster, which is what happened in 2004

    (Jeez, four years ago to the day!)

  34. Bethany says:

    So basically, if they turn them in, people say they’re signing up fakes. If they toss them, they’re also bad.

    I understand now!

  35. Don in Austin says:

    Gridlock is good most times. I don’t normally side with Wick, but the D’s will get 2 years to show how well they govern before another election. If they do a good job and progress is made, then there will be opportunity to adjust the Senate at that time. My loyalties side with the D’s but even I’m not ready to turn the whole thing over to them.

  36. Long Memory says:

    Here’s a piece on voter fraud:

    The key paragraphs might be these:

    “Voter fraud” is often construed to include fraudulent registrations turned in by activist voter registration groups. Most infamously, names like Jive Turkey, Mary Poppins and Dick Tracy showed up in a 2004 registration drive and were cited by GOP lawmakers as demonstrating the pressing need to employ anti-fraud measures, such as requiring voter ID.

    The GOP often points to groups like the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN, which have routinely been accused of fraud and are currently under investigation in Cuyahoga County and across the country. ACORN said Wednesday that it can’t possibly make sure that all the registrations it turns in are valid.

    But this is not voter fraud, it’s voter registration fraud. The two are not the same. Jive Turkey isn’t showing up at the polls asking for a ballot.

    This type of voter fraud happens when an unqualified voter actually casts an actual ballot in an election. This type of activity is extremely rare, says a 2007 report by the nonpartisan Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law.

  37. Hal A. Looya says:

    Reading this is the equivalent of watching, “great taste, less filling.” But more angry.

  38. julie says:

    As for the original subject of this piece, “Corndog” Cornyn, let’s take a look at what he has stood for here in Texas:

    He voted against GI benefits 20 times
    He voted against providing health insurance for poor children.

    ..You know, I’m just going to stop right there, because this is just so tiresome. Google “cornyn vets” and read for yourself why every vet in the state will be voting against him. He also incurred the wrath of every doctor in Texas by trying to decrease what tiny piddling amount they get paid right now to see Medicare patients.

    Corndog is just more-of-the-same “sc*ew the vets and the poor and anyone who’s not a rich fat cat like me.” And he’ll be swept out in 3 weeks along with the rest of the dirt.

    PS–Rick Noriega may not have Corndog’s bucks, but he has INTEGRITY. Repubs, I know this is an unfamiliar word…look it up

  39. yikesdallas says:

    Although the law appears to be a bit vague, yes they are apparently required to turn them in. But people are misinterpreting “voter registration” with actual “voting”.

    Yeah, some guys who were being paid $8 bucks an hour to get voter registrations made up some names. Surprise! But that doesn’t mean any of these names go onto voter rolls.

    Or that Mickey will show up and vote.

  40. yikesdallas says:

    Oh, and Cornyn is worthless. If he goes, we will all be a lot better off. For someone who has been one the most divisive Senators to run these silly ads about “people in Washington not getting along” and how upset he is by it is ludicrous. HE is one of the main problems with any semblance of civililty.

  41. Dubious Brother says:

    to the 3 J’s,

    As I have said in the past, who would you rather have in control of 550 Metric Tons of Yellowcake Uranium, Sadaam Hussein, his sons, Iran, Al Qaeda or the Canadian Nuclear energy providers? See:

    Christopher Merola :: :: Have Your Yellowcake and Eat It Too

    The threat of terrorist attack against the West has not gone away and they would love to include some form of nuclear caused damage. The war has been expensive but not as expensive as one country taking over the oil supply of the middle east or a Western target recovering from the damage of a nuclear incident.

    I’m still amazed that we did not learn our lesson in 1973 that OPEC does not have our best interest at heart. Energy independence will go a long way toward stabilizing our economy in the long run and I don’t see the “Repukes” as the ones that have been standing in the way.

  42. Spamboy says:

    Best and latest projections I’ve seen (on show them getting 57 seats with 30% chance of getting enough more to a “60-seat working majority” (whatever the last phrase means). Very close to what Andrew Sullivan describes in your linked article.

    The RNC has more money to prevent this than the DNC has to support it, so I think either candidate were he to win would need to reach across the aisle just as often.

  43. SRP says:

    Compassionate conservatism at work.


    An out-of-work money manager in California loses a fortune and wipes out his family in a murder-suicide. A 90-year-old Ohio widow shoots herself in the chest as authorities arrive to evict her from the modest house she called home for 38 years.

    In Massachusetts, a housewife who had hidden her family’s mounting financial crisis from her husband sends a note to the mortgage company warning: “By the time you foreclose on my house, I’ll be dead.”

    Then Carlene Balderrama shot herself to death, leaving an insurance policy and a suicide note on a table.

  44. julie says:

    Here’s your Corndog Voting Summary for what he’s done TO (not for) Texas:

    –“NO” to increased military procurement of equipment (S Roll Call 008, 02/02/2006) –“NO” to increased Army maintenance funding (S Roll Call 008, 02/02/2006)
    –“NO” to increased Marine Corps maintenance funding (S Roll Call 008, 02/02/2006)
    –“NO” to allowing the government to negotiate fair prices for prescription drugs under the Social Security Drug benefit (S Roll Call 302, 11/03/2005)
    –“NO” to prosecuting corporations for dealing with sponsors of terrorism (S Roll Call 203, 07/26/2005)
    –“NO” to consumer protection from price gouging during energy emergencies (S Roll Call 334, 11/17/2005)
    –“NO” to oil company excess profits tax to fund energy relief for the poor (S Roll Call 339, 11/17/2005)
    –“YES” to $39.7 Billion in Reductions to Medicare, prompting the Texas Medical Association to rescind their endorsement
    –“NO” to increases in PELL Grants for poor college students (S Roll Call 268, 10/25/2005)
    –“NO” to authorize additional funding for the VA for compensation and pensions, medical care and hospital improvements. (S Roll Call 007, 02/02/2006)
    –“NO” to increase VA funding for the increased demand for VA services due to the Iraq War. (S Roll Call 251, 10/05/2005)
    –“NO” to prohibiting federal employees who leak classified information from holding a security clearance, thereby voting against our national security (Reid Amdt. No. 1222 to H.R.2360, Vote #188 7/14/05)
    –“NO” to bipartisan legislation that would have provided additional funding for the highly successful State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP)
    –“NO” to the 21st Century GI Bill–Cornyn was one of only 22 senators to vote against the Post-9/11 Veterans Educational Act, continuing his history of turning his back on veterans. Adding insult to injury, Cornyn went so far as to condone and encourage a presidential veto of the bill. Webb’s GI Bill passed with the support of 75 senators, including Texas’ senior Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison

  45. J.B. C. says:

    I understand the difference between “voter fraud” and “voter registration fraud”…

    But people are using information they cull from those drives to cast ballots illegally –

    Either way its bad. I do not know where we are parsing words here. All of it should be stopped no matter how is doing it.


    Julie you just do not get it. Its just like when bush vetoed to expand the SCHIP program – liberals said he didn’t want to help the poor.

    Problem was alot of the people who would then be covered by the SCHIP could already afford the insurance. Why expand a program to people who could afford it?

    That makes no sense to me.

    In regards to Cornyn I think you are talking about his votes against some of Jim Webb’s proposals. Problem with Webbs GI Bill? There ws no tranferrability to the family…

    So it sounds like you are for the GI’s getting the the benefits but not the transferability of those benefits to the family which is what Cornyn was fighting for.

  46. J.B. C. says:

    I really hope you didn’t cut and paste that from Rick Noriega’s website…

    Also about the GI benefits – that was the miracle of bi-partisan politics and Cornyn ended up voting for it when the transferability was in place.

  47. Gwyon says:

    JBC, the guy in that article fraudulently registered and voted at an election office after his ACORN registrations were flagged for a wrong address and rejected. So he did not ” cull from those drives to cast ballots illegally.”

  48. Bill says:

    So you guys have gone from coffee cup polling to linking tin-foil hat websites?

    BTW: I thought last week that you Obama nerds had the Park Cities wrapped up?

    From the Asbury/Hillcrest 7-11(across from The Hilltop) at noon

  49. Steve says:

    You know, President Obama (there, I said it) doesn’t need 60 Dems in the Senate, he needs 60 votes. Whether the Dems have 57, 58, 59, or 60 seats, we will get our 60 votes with regularity. I’m winking at you Maine!

  50. puhleeze says:

    “Threat”….”Nuke-yu-lur”….there are those words again. Seems to me that the current election is showing that the Republican Party can only run on the fear platform. Sure as heck aren’t winning any votes with their economic policy. So, scare the bejeezus out of ’em so they’ll vote for us out of fear. How original.

  51. @ Billusa

    “Careful, Rawlins. Keep mentioning your relatives and Trey may go ad hominem on your family, too.”

    Look, I don’t hablo Guatemalan, so I don’t know what that means, but jason is the one who called his parents (and grandparents) racists, so don’t put all that on me.

    I’m just offering my compassionate services as a psychologist (unlicensed).

    I can’t help it; I’m a giver.

  52. Barry Cooda says:


    If I flood registrars’ offices nationwide with as many voter registrations as possible, no matter how absurd many of them that I’ve created by the hundreds and thousands might be, I turn the laws you cite to my advantage by paralyzing the system that might otherwise weed out the bad ones.

    Even though making them up by the ton is required to accomplish it, it is the sheer quantity of the registrations in total that is the true weapon, not the percentage of phony ones themselves.

    Down on the border we call this a “banzai crossing”, and Barack Obama is frankly to be admired for hiring ACORN to emulate the tactics used so successfully by illegal immigrants in SOCAL to insure his election.

    Who ever said community organizing among the criminal elements of society doesn’t yield invaluable insights?

  53. julie says:

    JBC, nope, that does not come from Noriega’s website. What, you couldn’t go there yourself and take a look? I wish he would put up something that straightforward, but he won’t. That whole “integrity” thing again….

    FYI, “S Roll Call” means “Senate Roll Call”, ie, public information–available to anyone, even you

  54. J.B. C. says:

    My apologies I grabbed the wrong link it was on blog,website, newspaper…

    searching now for correct…

  55. J.B. C. says:

    So you culled that information yourself I am impressed.. For real no joking.

  56. N. Hale says:

    “Due to an overwhelming response, [tonight’s] Noriega for U.S. Senate Rally with special guest President Bill Clinton is over capacity!

    Ticket distribution at the door will be limited, based on venue capacity and given on a first come first served basis.

    Seating preference and venue access will be given to those who have already picked up tickets or have given their information to “will-call.” There will be also be an overflow space with a full audio feed.”

    Source – The Noriega for Texas Team

  57. S.E. says:

    @Gwyon – After having lunch with a friend who said “Illuminati” several times in the course of the meal, I’m fairly moderate in my views of the next 4 years. A shotgun has been mentioned in our household, but I want that pink one like Trey bought.

    Considering the two campaigns, I may still vote for Bob Barr. Obama is sounding more socialist ( and McCain doesn’t seem to want to win (, so I can at least feel like I’m protesting both parties by voting Libertarian. Of course, I’ll just be glad when this election is over, because I’m tired of hearing about political signs being burned in my parents’ neighborhood and worrying about what the thugs will do next.

  58. James White says:

    I believe that there is one flaw with your argument about a “check in the Senate”. Your position, as I understand it, assumes that the checking force will negotiate to moderation in order to continue a functioning body. The Republicans, in the last two years in the Senate, see only obstruction as a goal — not governing. We have reached the point where the loyal opposition is occupying the redoubt of complete obstruction.

    How would you get around that?

  59. James, why would we want to get around that?

    “Government that governs least, governs best.”

    OTOH – four years of carte blanche, rubberstamp Dem rule would be a glorious train wreck to watch.

  60. Long Memory says:

    Trey, have you ever considered where this country was prior to the last 8 years?

  61. Dallasite says:

    @Tom:“Republicans who split from the party, becoming Independents or some other group (bringing back the Whigs would be fun) could win some seats in 2012.”

    I say we bring back the Know Nothing Party. Screw the Irish!

  62. Peterk says:

    “But this is not voter fraud, it’s voter registration fraud. The two are not the same. Jive Turkey isn’t showing up at the polls asking for a ballot.”

    splitting hairs. The problem is that the fraudulent registrations must be reviewed by the registrars. this clogs up the system.

    but why is that we must produce photo id for all sorts of things in this country EXCEPT when it comes to voting?

  63. Peterk says:

    “four years of carte blanche, rubberstamp Dem rule would be a glorious train wreck to watch.”

    I think you can get those tickets via Ticketmaster for a small handling charge. Of course if it becomes the trainwreck that many like Trey and myself see coming then the 2010 Congressional elections should be a real barn burner

  64. @ Long Memory
    Yes, largely left alone 1994-2000 owing to gridlock.

  65. Long Memory says:

    Tis a pity, Trey. Most everyone else made money and there was still a budget surplus. Speaking of “left alone,” have you seen your Constitutional rights lately?

  66. Long Memory says:

    Peterk: If you want us to have a national ID card so everyone will know who everyone is, just say so. Grow a pair and say that’s what we need, just like in other countries. Hey, then we won’t even need to register. We’ll just show up, show our card and vote. I think you’re on to something, podnah. Thanks!

  67. yikesdallas says:

    I DO agree that it’s wrong for any group to generate a bunch of false voter registrations. And I’m very concerned about the ability for voter fraud that results – especially with mail-in ballots.

    So yes, it should be stopped. There has to be a way for a group like ACORN to take responsibility, and not be able to just turn in everything and say “Hey, we followed the law”.

  68. Bethany says:

    According to several interviews, in most cases, ACORN makes notations about problematic ballots (which they have to turn in legally anyway).

  69. Dallasite says:

    “Tis a pity, Trey. Most everyone else made money and there was still a budget surplus. Speaking of “left alone,” have you seen your Constitutional rights lately?”

    Enjoy the hell out of them every single day. Don’t feel like I’ve lost a single one.

  70. J.B. C. says:

    Long Memory,

    I am interested in what constitutional rights have you lost under Bush?

    You do know we were still massively in debt when Clinton was in office correct? Though I am in no way sticking up for Bush because I think he did nothing conservative while in office… the facts are during Clinton’s term the national debt went from 4.4 to 5.8 trillion and we had a deficit of 133 billion when he left.

    The national debt is made up of two kinds of debt – “public debt” and “intergovernmental debt”…

    The “public debt” went down under Clinton – this is where you are getting your surplus. But we were still gaining in the “national debt” – but why?

    You might remember this was during the awesome-DotCom-amazing-time. People were making money on that bubble so the government was getting alot of cash pushed into Social Security. So much money Social Security had more money coming in than it could pay out. So instead of taking money from the “public” they took it from themselves – the social security administration. ( “Intergovernmental debt”)

    That “intergovernmental debt” went up but you only hear of the “public debt” when they say surplus… in reality there was no “surplus” the “national debt” went up every year Clinton was in office.

  71. JB says:

    And the irony – I hope – is not lost on anyone….

  72. Long Memory says:

    Thanks for asking, J.B. In the time of Bush’s unitary executive theory, it appears to me that they’ve fiddled with every one of those rights, with the possible exception of Article 2. The USA PATRIOT Act gutted the Bill of Rights to the point that we’ll be lucky to ever restore that document no matter who the president might be.

    And I do recall that we were in debt when President Clinton was in office, but we were making headway in righting the ship. The reason I know this is because Tom DeLay and Dick Armey spent a lot of time taking credit for the turn in spending. I know they were lying about the credit they deserved, but they weren’t lying about the turn, were they?

  73. JB says:

    Long Memory,

    Name one person prosecuted and in jail under the Patriot Act. You will find one… someone who abused prisoners in the CIA.

    You are incorrect about making headway we went over a trillion more in debt. I do not call that headway when the national debt was increased by over 25%. (As explained above.) To Clinton’s credit he was 17.6 billion away from a balanced year in believe in 1997 or 1998.

  74. Gwyon says:

    “Name one person prosecuted and in jail under the Patriot Act. You will find one… someone who abused prisoners in the CIA.”

    I think that’s kind of the point, JB. All that surveillance on peace groups, Muslims and vegans, all those National Security Letters, all that eavesdropping on American citizens, and nothing to show for it.

  75. These tend to be so complicated.