Help D Magazine Define Dallas Neighborhoods

Neighborhoods are whatever we – the hive mind, the wisdom of crowds, the Borg Collective, Wikipedia’s editors, etc. – want them to be. But we don’t always agree. Ask 10 random people on the street what neighborhood of Dallas Victory Park sits in, and you’re bound to get 11-15 different answers.

We here at D Magazine confront this reality every day as we add new restaurants to our online restaurant guide, new shops to our online shopping guide, and new bars to our online bars and clubs guide. We assign each listing to a neighborhood, and we’ve not been consistent in how we classify areas of the city of Dallas, as the many different staff members who work on those online guides have differing opinions of what sits where in the city, and we haven’t been working from the same map. We need to reach a consensus.

In addition, some neighborhoods have grown strong enough that it’s time for them to walk on their own, and to be added to our official list. They’ve earned their own classification. For instance, we firmly believe it’s time for an amicable divorce between Knox and Henderson. They’ve been growing apart for years.

And so we’ve drawn the new map you see below. Take the jump to help us make it even better.


View D Magazine’s Dallas Neighborhoods in a larger map

We’d like you to look at how we’ve divvied Dallas up, and to let us know what you think we’ve gotten wrong, or right. Click on any of the colored areas to find out what we’re calling it. Zoom in to see the exact boundaries we’re using. But please note:

1) The outer boundaries of the city are only crudely drawn. So don’t tell us that we’ve put a portion of Mesquite in southeast Dallas. That’s not what we’re worried about (since anything that deserves to be classified as Mesquite will have a Mesquite address anyway and will be noted as such). All we’re concerned with is the boundaries between the Dallas neighborhoods (those highlighted in various colors on the map.)

2) While there are many wonderful neighborhoods in Dallas – like Lake Highlands, Forest Hills, and the M Streets, to name but a few – keep in mind that we’re drawing this map for the purposes of classifying bars, shops, and restaurants. Therefore, primarily residential neighborhoods (like those I just mentioned) won’t be given their own designation on our site. Do you ever say you’re going to a bar in the M Streets? No, you’re probably headed to a bar in Lower Greenville.

3) For the record, Victory Park is Downtown.

Comments

  • ELH

    I would re-draw what you are considering Old East Dallas.
    1. I would use Grand as a boundary rather than 30.
    2. I would designate the center mostly residential/historic section as Old East Dallas Historic Districts or something similar to include Hollywood Heights/Santa Monica, Junius Heights, Munger Place, Peak’s Addition and Swiss.
    3. I would find another designation for the section closer to downtown on the other side of Baylor as it really doesn’t match the character of the rest of the area. (NE of Live Oak)

    This would cut down on a lot of confusion when describing that area of town since cardinal directions are generally unhelpful in that area and the neighborhood shifts are fairly drastic.

    I would also expand what you are considering “Henderson Avenue” to include Fitzhugh with the openings of RedFork and other new restaurants/bars in that area. I am fairly sure that development is only going to increase and having to redraw that district in 2 years would be pretty annoying. I would also end that area at Ross rather than including the weird intersection that connects it to Munger, it would be easier for people to determine if they had gone too far that way.

  • Borborygmus

    “Do you ever say you’re going to a bar in the M Streets? No, you’re probably headed to a bar in Lower Greenville.”

    People don’t say I’m going to a restaurant in North Dallas, they say we’re going to Preston-Forest (Pro-Fro?) or Preston-Royal (Pro-Ro?) or near Presbyterian (Ho Zone?), Lover’s Lane-Inwood (Love-Wood?), or Preston Center (Pren-Cen?).

    I have faith that other readers can supply names far more entertaining than these.

  • FJM

    So why wouldn’t you call NE Dallas Lake Highlands? I would never say I am going to a bar in NE Dallas to use your example. Then again, I would just say I am going to Picasso’s/Mariano’s/Mi Cocina.

  • ceemac

    I think you err in using the term neighborhood for such large sections of the city. For example you call my neck of the woods East Dallas. But East Dallas is not a neighborhood it is part of town with many neighborhoods in it.

  • Daniel

    Personally, I would put a finer point on a lot of neighborhoods here. Your definition of Deep Ellum, for example, is somewhat tortured, albeit serviceable. Your definition of South Dallas, however, is simply erroneous. South Dallas is almost entirely contained in the area you call “Fair Park” (a subset of which, Exposition Park, almost certainly deserves its own denomination). What you’re calling “South Dallas” is actually part of Oak Cliff — the part white hipsters don’t ride their bikes through on their way to enjoy their locally sourced, “unpretentiously” ambitious dinner.

  • @FJM: But could we call the entire area that we designate Northeast Dallas instead Lake Highlands? Is that term inclusive of all that territory?

    @ceemac: Does it seem to you that East Dallas as we’ve defined it should be broken up into smaller units? Do each of those smaller units have their own distinct bars/shops/restaurants of note?

  • @Daniel: You’re saying South Dallas is just a tiny area next to Fair Park?

  • downtown_worker

    Curious about why you chose Olive as the Downtown/Uptown border and not Pearl, which is a wider street. I would even move it as far as Maple and argue that the Ritz, Federal Reserve and even that shopping center with Pei Wei and Morton’s Steakhouse are downtown (making State-Thomas the true start to Uptown). This area has been called Lower McKinney (or LoMac) in the past, but with things like Museum Tower and the Woodall Rodgers park going up, it seems to be assimilating in the direction of downtown rather than Uptown, which is fine by me.

    Speaking of assimilating, the Perot Museum looks like the Borg ship from Star Trek.

  • Daniel

    P.S. If I were heading to White Rock Coffee (or whatever that place is called) and someone asked me where it was, I would, in fact, say Lake Highlands.

  • ELH

    Jason, I would say Lake Highlands, Casa Linda, and Forest Hills are all distinct enough that they should justify their own areas. I am sure there are other neighborhood designations that would be applicable to that area as well. The way the area labeled as “East Dallas” is drawn now you may as well call it “The stuff on the other side of the lake”.

  • ceemac

    I think it is fine to call that segment of town East Dallas. Just don’t call East Dallas a neighborhood.

  • Daniel

    Jason,

    It doesn’t matter what I say — it’s simply a fact. Look at Dallas on satellite view and turn off the street map, and South Dallas appears as a wedge-shaped “island” surrounded by the Trinity floodplain just south of downtown. In addition to Exposition Park, it includes the Cedars, which also deserves its own denomination (you’ll note that I originally said “almost entirely contained”).

  • Daniel

    or “peninsula,” I suppose

  • Daniel

    Directly on the other side of the river is “Oak Cliff.”

    God, am I ever a geek.

  • Tom

    I agree that this lists parts of town, but not neighborhoods. Perhaps you keep the parts but then break them down further by neighborhoods.

  • You should call Rawlins. He’s the expert on neighborhoods.

    As far as East Dallas. I call my Casa View Neighborhood, Far East Dallas, to distinguish it from East Dallas, which is what many people call the area around Woodrow.

    FWIW, I think Tim’s neighborhood is becoming quite distinctive with good 2 Go Tacos, the new GoodFriends Beer Garden and Cassel’s new place. I call that Old Lake Highlands.

  • Senor

    When in doubt, just look at the street sign toppers.

  • People, please don’t get hung up on the word “neighborhood.” We are, in fact, talking about “parts of town” more than we are talking about smaller, more discrete neighborhoods. Neighborhoods are tiny places, oftentimes no more than a few blocks. We can’t afford to get that granular with our listings.

    If you say the Casa Linda “neighborhood,” when talking about businesses in our directories, you’d really only be talking about the actual Casa Linda shopping center. Too granular.

    Therefore, Casa Linda is East Dallas. And so on.

  • ELH

    Tim,
    That depends on how useful you want the map to be. My thought is that if I am going to an unfamiliar area of Dallas based on a recommendation from D and the area indicated includes several separate commercial areas I want the best chance of predicting which one my destination is in. So if I am looking for Good2Go Taco and I wind up at the Casa Linda shopping center I would like to know that it is not the right location but I am close. Currently the way the map is drawn I might continue down Garland Rd. and assume I have gone too far because I would start to enter a residential area after leaving a largely commercial one.

  • @ELH: This map represents our top-level carving up of the city. We may, in future, have a second level of division within these areas. We agree that makes sense. But that’s not what concerns us now.

  • wlciii

    I’m surprised there haven’t been any Parkies who are up in arms about your boundaries for the Park Cities extending so far east of the Tollroad. Certainly, “their” definition (for schools, city services, taxes, etc.) doesn’t extend that far. But, I guess if you give them Neighborhood Services, Shinsei, Rex’s, TOT, and Inwood Tavern (and even Celebration Market “way” out there on Lovers) then they’re cool with it.

  • In that case, I think your marking of East Dallas is cool. I wonder if you should combine Expo park and Deep Ellum. Expo Park seems to fit that better than south dallas. all of those cool businesses struggle by being identified with fair park, which is too bad, because it’s distinct.

  • BrandonS

    @Daniel: I wouldn’t say that your definition of South Dallas is a fact. The hacks at Google put labels on the maps, just like Jason is trying to do. It’s not a science.

  • LakeWWWooder

    Hollywood Heights has been in the Lakewood Elementary district for almost 30 years – so you might put that in “Lakewood” rather than Old East Dallas. Also parts of neighboring Junius Heights Historic District and Abrams-Brookside are also in the Lakewood attendance zone, including the houses surrounding Long and Woodrow.

  • Brooks L. Powell

    This is why design by committee is impossible, especially when the medium is a series of moderated blog comments.

  • Blake

    How does that story of the three blind men describing an elephant go again?

  • Daniel

    BrandonS,

    Historically, it’s a very clearly defined neighborhood. It is a fact. More to the point, I don’t really care, but community folks in the southern parts of Dallas are sticklers about that stuff. It would behoove a citymag to get it right. Again, I don’t really care personally if they do or do not. (And the Google guys, for what it’s worth, pegged Preston Hollow west of Midway, among other errors.)

    Bill H has the right idea — this is a job for the estimable Rawlins Gilliland.

  • Other Bill

    Part of the pink SE Dallas needs to be redrawn and labeled Pleasant Grove.

    The Fair Park area should expand east across Dolphin/Hatcher as far as the liquor stores on the west bank of White Rock Creek. Moving your boundary would include the Frazier Court housing project.

    I would not consider the neighborhoods north of Williamson, part of Lakewood.

    I would not consider Hamilton Park or Texas Instruments to be in Lake Highlands.

  • @Other Bill: What would you consider to be the boundaries of Pleasant Grove?

    With which area, then, should places north of Williamson be classified, if not Lakewood? Should our version of “Lakewood” be called something else?

  • Lee

    Lakewood does not go north of Mockinbgbird Lane. That is Hillside. I would stop Lakewood at Skillman, not Concho, which is a lower profile street.

  • Schutze’s Love Child

    So glad I live in the simply named, Far North Dallas. So perfect, and mostly separate from the rest of the city. It’s like paradise.

  • John M

    Uptown is a PID, property owners in Uptown pay extra taxes to live in Uptown, I especially take issue with including Victory in Uptown as so much of it represents what Uptown is not and has designed itself to be fairly inaccessible from Uptown.

    http://www.dallas-ecodev.org/SiteContent/66/documents/Incentives/PIDs/Uptown/PID_Uptown.pdf

  • Other Bill

    @Jason Heid,

    I would say Pleasant Grove would be east of Jim Miller, south of I-30, west of 635 and north of 175. In doing so, you would not have a neighborhood zone to stick Urbandale and Parkdale. They are orphan neighborhoods that are more like East Dallas near White Rock Lake.

  • Buckeye

    John M sounds like he’s pretty proud to live in Uptown. That’s nice.

  • Borborygmus

    Just a suggestion, I think a new area could be drawn from Northwest Highway to 635, calling it the Central Corridor going east to Greenville. This would include Hamilton Park, the Presby zone and the new development across from NorthPark.

  • @Lee: So which area would you group Hillside with? It’s doubtful we’d give the neighborhood its own designation, being largely residential.

    And we cut over to Concho in order to include the small commercial area where La Calle Doce is. If we’d used Skillman has a firm boundary, it would it have been left out. Were were incorrect to do that?

  • @JohnM: Our map places Victory as part of Downtown.

  • @Borborygmus: Thanks for the suggestion. We’d like our labels to be names which are commonly used. Do people say “Central Corridor” often?

  • Mark

    Obvious Man would point out that you’re placing SOC High School outside of Oak Cliff. Both SOC and the zoo are part of Oak Cliff, so you should move that boundary east to at least Marsalis.

    The area south of Ledbetter and west of 35 is called Redbird. The fact that the city is trying to banish the name from officialdom doesn’t change that fact. Areas that butt up next to Duncanville ISD are not really part of Oak Cliff.

    I also second Other Bill’s suggestion that a big hunk of the area SE of downtown should be designated Pleasant Grove.

  • Mark

    Copy editing skillz need work today:

    The fact that the city is trying to banish the name from officialdom doesn’t change that.

  • CollinBabs

    Could we perhaps look at how NYC and Chicago do this and take our cues? Might provide some good ideas…

  • M Streeter

    In my estimation there are only two parts of town: SoMo (south of Mockingbird) and NoMo (north of Mockingbird).

  • Randy

    @John M: You are correct about the hard boundaries of Uptown, but have fun explaining to people that Knox Park is the area between Haskell & Knox. I only learned this when I got a refund check after years of being erroneously charges taxes for the trolley.

  • LakeWWWooder

    Lakewood Elementary attendance zone map:

    http://www.dallasisd.org/cms/lib/TX01001475/Centricity/Domain/89/schoolinfo/eszones2011/Lakewood2011.pdf

    It goes north/east of Fisher and Mockingbird up to Trammel/Katy Trail/DART and Northwest Highway (University Terrace). ALSO in Woodrow and Long attendance zone – the only schools in Dallas offering International Baccalaureate.

  • RAB

    This is so bizarre. I don’t know of any of these places you’re all referring to. There’s Highland Park, Uptown, and that nasty crap you have to drive through to get to DFW. (Correction: Add Downtown to the list. And I’ve heard of Deep Ellum.)

  • tinkerbell

    When you get to naming the subzones I suggest you check out how The Family Place divvies up the city for Partners’ Card. They are tasked with placing 700 retailers and restaurants in zones and do a really good job. P.S., Partners Card is just a little over a month away- go to http://www.familyplace.org to get your card! No, I don’t work there, I just LOVE The Family Place and what they do!!! 🙂

  • ZK

    Does “Lowest Greenvile” really need it’s own designation? Seems like that could get absorbed by Henderson or OED.

  • Kristin Haun

    @ Other Bill: Pleasant Grove is much smaller than the area you’ve mentioned. It does not, for instance, include Balch Springs, which is more of a suburb of Mesquite.

    I grew up in Parkdale. Yes, no one knows where it is, but it is not an orphan. I always told people that I lived south of White Rock, or in Buckner Terrace. The area east of Dolphin, south of I-30, west of Buckner, and north of Bruton contains the neighborhoods of Parkdale, Urbandale, Urban Park, Piedmont, and Buckner Terrace. This is NOT Pleasant Grove, no matter how much people lump it together with it.

    Jason, for the purpose of the D Map, this area would be correctly labeled “Southeast Dallas”. Much of the rest of the area you’ve called “Southeast Dallas” should be called “Pleasant Grove”, “Seagoville”, or maybe “Far Southeast Dallas”.

  • tb

    I would cast a vote for defining Lake Highlands separately. Even if you’re describing “parts of town” rather than distinct neighborhoods, I think it’s useful to conform to traditional naming, and Lake Highlands provides more information than Northeast Dallas or East Dallas. I have an idea of where Lake Highlands is. But, even with “east” in the name, “Northeast Dallas” doesn’t mean much to me; and even worse, “East Dallas” is too easy to confuse with “Old East Dallas.” So give “Lake Highlands” to what’s currently shown on the map as south Northeast Dallas and north East Dallas. (I’ll admit that I tend to think of the rest of Northeast Dallas and East Dallas more as “Mesquite/Garland,” which I know isn’t right.)

  • Gabe

    Compare and contrast this map of Dallas ZIP codes. Some interesting parallels:

    http://www.city-data.com/zipmaps/Dallas-Texas.html

    Also, I grew up referring to Knox-Henderson. I know that now they are developed enough that maybe they should be separate, but I still say Knox-Henderson.

  • Brenda

    This map is an example of what happens when people who don’t know the city try to define areas. South Dallas is the Fair Park area. South Oak Cliff is east of I-30 and north of I-20. Anything south of there is Southern Dallas. There is no North Oak Cliff – it’s just Oak Cliff. East Dallas is the area closer to Downtown – it is not Old East Dallas. What you have labeled as East Dallas is more accurately described at Far East Dallas.